1 (edited by Phoenix 2015-04-25 00:03:47)

Topic: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Hartlepool United supporters, for many years, have chosen a fancy dress theme for the last away match of the season, and then dressed en-masse as whatever the theme is. See below:

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.jaInC1APa3zt0lHAbcFC9Q&pid=15.1&P=0

https://s.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/ZL6mbePGF_n23nRMnb8dcw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTU5Ng--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptussowexperts/smurfs1.jpg

THE SMURFS

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/webimage/1.7215293.1429269025!/image/765520145.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/765520145.jpg
THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO

Hartlepool United have had an awful year. In fact, it is very likely that they will drop out of the football league when they play their last away game of the season. So, the theme they have decided on is the late, great Bob Marley. After all, they said, a lot of his songs could sum up the season they have had, and they can add in singing songs like Three Little Birds, which is very apt given their predicament.

Now, obviously the theme they have chosen means that a lot of Hartlepool Supporters will be using make up to change their skin colour. The manager of Carlisle United, where the match will be played, who is a black man, has said he wouldn't find it in the least bit offensive, as have many prominent minority football players past and present.

Let's Kick Racism Out Of Football had this to say:

Kick It Out Issue Statement



Kick It Out

A statement from Kick It Out, football’s equality and inclusion organisation.
"We have received a number of complaints* from Hartlepool United supporters about the Bob Marley fancy dress theme planned by a group of the club’s fans for their fixture against Carlisle United at Brunton Park on Saturday 2 May. The main concerns raised have been over the potential of fans deciding to ‘black up’.
“We have subsequently followed up on the complaints by contacting both Hartlepool United and Carlisle United on the matter. We clearly outlined that ‘blacking up’ has historically been a way of acting out racist stereotypes, and while the theme planned by fans may be well intended and chosen as part of an annual fancy dress tradition, such behaviour, if it occurs, is likely to cause offence.
“We have provided guidance to both clubs on the matter, and advised Carlisle United of our own stance that if any fans do choose to ‘black up’ they should be refused entry to their stadium. We have also contacted The Football Association, the Football League, and the United Kingdom Football Policing Unit to inform them of the complaints we have received from Hartlepool United supporters.     
“If we do receive complaints informing us that supporters have ‘blacked up’ at the fixture between Carlisle United and Hartlepool United, or that any incidents or disturbances of a discriminatory nature have occurred, we will follow our usual procedures by making The Football Association and the Football League aware for them to investigate.”

So, whadd'ya reckon? Harmless fun, or poorly thought out and offensive?

"I tried to push him away with my head and I shouldn't have done that." - Alan Pardew

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Harmless fun. Since when is dressing up as someone derogatory?

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

I still remember The Black and White Minstrel Show as a kid, it was just a music show with a format, no-one was taking the piss out of anyone, there was a bit of stereotyping but all comedy was about stereotyping at the time, it was just laziness not hatred.
I think it's all over-sensitivity, not by black people but by the well meaning individuals who think they're ashamed of the colour of their skin and hate to be reminded of it.
Those Smurfs look ridiculous btw, it looks a good laugh though.

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

In live action, its no problem. But photos of the scene and a person looking to do what the internet does, could see whities in blackface as offensive, yes. I can't think of too many instances off the top of my head where white people dressing in blackface has gone over well. But thats just my two cents.

"We've been divided, we've been bled,
Like a chicken without a head.
Running frantically amuck
Taking but not giving a fuck."

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z18/ickmcwang/ickmcwang.gif

5 (edited by Bettie_Rage 2015-04-25 20:29:17)

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Ick McWang wrote:

In live action, its no problem. But photos of the scene and a person looking to do what the internet does, could see whities in blackface as offensive, yes. I can't think of too many instances off the top of my head where white people dressing in blackface has gone over well. But thats just my two cents.

because it never has gone over well. My opinion is that it depends. Something like this is nothing but harmless, but then again this IS a hypersensitive generation. Obviously, it takes a lot to offend me and I'm not sensitive to much, except when it comes to animals and my kids.

"Hey evil, why don't you eat my butt?"

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

But my problem is, why should a group of people who are doing something that is harmless and with no ill intent stop what they are doing because some portion of over sensitive individuals will find it offensive?

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

gnat wrote:

But my problem is, why should a group of people who are doing something that is harmless and with no ill intent stop what they are doing because some portion of over sensitive individuals will find it offensive?

My dear, you just answered your own question and I know you're smart enough to have figured it out anyway.

"Hey evil, why don't you eat my butt?"

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

I don't see this as being racist. It just seems to be a vocal minority (who aren't necessarily the ones supposedly being stereotyped) causing a stir over nothing.

I would however like to get everyone's opinions on the use of Indian imagery in American sports. Here's an article for those who aren't familiar.

http://www.fastcodesign.com/3030524/inf … ts-logos#1

I honestly think the Redskins should ditch the name. How much harm would being the Washington Warriors instead cause? The Cleveland Indians should find a new logo too if you ask me. I don't see the Blackhawks, Braves or (ignoring the name) the Redskins logos as being racist. If we go that far we might as well say the Notre Dame Fighting Irish and Minnesota Vikings are racist.

"I pop punk, not pills"

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Bettie_Rage wrote:
gnat wrote:

But my problem is, why should a group of people who are doing something that is harmless and with no ill intent stop what they are doing because some portion of over sensitive individuals will find it offensive?

My dear, you just answered your own question and I know you're smart enough to have figured it out anyway.

Are tou saying im right or that they shouldnt do it because a minority of people will be offended?

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

I think the problem with this will always be the reporting of it, any person of any colour or creed should be able to if done "respectfully" dress up as anyone, but we all know how this is going to be reported it's an easy hit for the papers. Who are inevitably the ones writing the letters of complaint in the first damn place.
Leave em too it you didnt see popa smurf writing angry letters did ya.

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

gnat wrote:
Bettie_Rage wrote:
gnat wrote:

But my problem is, why should a group of people who are doing something that is harmless and with no ill intent stop what they are doing because some portion of over sensitive individuals will find it offensive?

My dear, you just answered your own question and I know you're smart enough to have figured it out anyway.

Are tou saying im right or that they shouldnt do it because a minority of people will be offended?

That you're right.

"Hey evil, why don't you eat my butt?"
Thanks: gnat1

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

chisox100 wrote:

I don't see this as being racist. It just seems to be a vocal minority (who aren't necessarily the ones supposedly being stereotyped) causing a stir over nothing.

I would however like to get everyone's opinions on the use of Indian imagery in American sports. Here's an article for those who aren't familiar.

http://www.fastcodesign.com/3030524/inf … ts-logos#1

I honestly think the Redskins should ditch the name. How much harm would being the Washington Warriors instead cause? The Cleveland Indians should find a new logo too if you ask me. I don't see the Blackhawks, Braves or (ignoring the name) the Redskins logos as being racist. If we go that far we might as well say the Notre Dame Fighting Irish and Minnesota Vikings are racist.

Hey, Im Irish, and I don't fight at all, so I should be offended, right?

Seriously though, the problem is that the term Redskin is and of itself is derogatory. He just needs to figure out a name that is similar but not offensive. What I read and hear on the sports forums is that Snyder will use the name change as a political/financial chip in his push for a new stadium, which is ongoing. Sure, I will change the name, if you guys pay for my stadium.

For the way a team can use this sort of imagery and honor, not disrespect, the group, and who changed offensive things from the past, I hold up the Florida State Seminoles. The name, the imagery, and even the beats of the fight song are all made by and/or approved by the Seminole Tribe of Florida. The team "mascots"(for lack of better word), Osceola and Renegade; Osceola was a real Seminole war leader, and the person portraying him wears an outfit designed and approved by the Seminole Tribe. They do not allow him to do crazy stunts or act like a traditional mascot, in order to preserve the dignity of the Seminole.

In keeping with his stoic portrayal, FSU refers to Osceola and Renegade as a "symbols" rather than mascots, and does not use them for more traditional mascot activities like cheerleading and promotions. In 2012, the university revived an older mascot, an anthropomorphic horse named "Cimarron", to fill this role.

So to sum it up, Daniel Snyder shouldn't be buying "acceptance" by bribing Native American tribes, he should be consulting them on a way to make his team honor them.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Etc_052.JPG/200px-Etc_052.JPG
http://sports-glutton.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/florida-state-seminoles.jpg
sources:
http://newpittsburghcourieronline.com/2 … ida-state/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osceola_and_Renegade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_State_Seminoles
Living in Florida for the past twenty two years

PETA for once had a good idea for the Redskins
http://www.mediapeta.com/peta/igc/redskins.jpg

"We've been divided, we've been bled,
Like a chicken without a head.
Running frantically amuck
Taking but not giving a fuck."

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z18/ickmcwang/ickmcwang.gif

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

My 2 cents on this is that they will be blacking up in a tribute manner with respect for an individual who happened to be black.  This isn't blacking up to get laughs perpetuating stereotypes.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

WEST HAM til I Die!!

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Even though I'm an ND Fighting Irish fan, I can't help but love the FSU tomahawk chop. Authentic or not it sounds amazing, especially live (saw them kill ND in South Bend about 10 years ago)

University of Illinois used to have an Indian as a mascot. Chief Illiniwick. A fictional chief of the Illini tribe who disappeared long before Europeans arrived. They had him dance around doing a bunch of stupid gymnastic stunts. About 10 years ago the NCAA banned him for being offensive and everyone in Illinois kept saying Osceola should be banned too. I didn't know he was actually authentic.

"I pop punk, not pills"

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

ANTISOCIAL wrote:

My 2 cents on this is that they will be blacking up in a tribute manner with respect for an individual who happened to be black.  This isn't blacking up to get laughs perpetuating stereotypes.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

That was my thought on it too. Not heard anything about whether it went ahead or not.

"I tried to push him away with my head and I shouldn't have done that." - Alan Pardew

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

chisox100 wrote:

Even though I'm an ND Fighting Irish fan, I can't help but love the FSU tomahawk chop. Authentic or not it sounds amazing, especially live (saw them kill ND in South Bend about 10 years ago)

University of Illinois used to have an Indian as a mascot. Chief Illiniwick. A fictional chief of the Illini tribe who disappeared long before Europeans arrived. They had him dance around doing a bunch of stupid gymnastic stunts. About 10 years ago the NCAA banned him for being offensive and everyone in Illinois kept saying Osceola should be banned too. I didn't know he was actually authentic.

Yeah, when all that went down, FSU was one of the only schools to get an exception, and its was pretty much because they had the Seminole Tribes approval already, and had been using a "respectful" symbol since the late 70's. Even being the person who portrays Osceola is a big deal- two year apprenticeship, expertise in riding a horse, moral codes, and a requirement to uphold the dignity of Osceola, and receives a full scholarship.

The real life Osceola, if you want http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osceola. A half white, Half Creek, who was screwed over by our dishonorable military and government, as usual.

Osceola led the war resistance until he was captured in September 1837 by deception, under a flag of truce, when he went to a US fort for peace talks.

"We've been divided, we've been bled,
Like a chicken without a head.
Running frantically amuck
Taking but not giving a fuck."

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z18/ickmcwang/ickmcwang.gif

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Bumping an old thread here, but I was reading about Al Jolson the other day and thought of this conversation, there was a lot more to the guy than is commonly known. I always saw him as a dodgy singer with borderline racist tendencies who got away with it because of the climate of his time, turns out I didn't know shit apparently.

In 1929, The Jazz Singer, (his greatest film) was, at the time seen by the black population as a triumph, Jolson, almost single handedly introduced Jazz, Ragtime and Blues to mainstream audiences, he was a fierce equal rights employer and had been campaigning for equal rights for African Americans from as early as 1911.
He played a major role in getting black playwright Garland Anderson’s work published, which resulted in Broadway's first production with an all black cast, he surrounded himself with black workers at his shows, attempted to have the first all black dance troupe backing him on stage and at the end of the day would invite his Co-workers back home with him (unheard of at the time)
Upon hearing of two of his friends thrown out of a restaurant because of their skin colour, he took them straight back and promised to punch anyone who tried to throw them out.
At this time he was probably the equivalent of Sinatra or Elvis in popularity, and it was also a time when 15% of the American population were kkk members, so he wasn't operating risk free.
When he died, black performers lined the streets to pay their respects, the guy was a pioneer.

On our side of the pond we had George Formby, he never wore the blackface make-up (to my knowledge) but I remember reading of his tour of South Africa back in the 40's, he refused to play in any segregated venues, SA at the time was pre-apartheid, but almost there. After one performance, a little girl presented Formby's wife Beryl with a box of chocolates, George bent down and gave her a hug as thanks and the venue went crazy, the black audience members cheered and the white audience members were horrified. The next day, the soon to be PM and head of the Nationalist Party, Daniel Francois Malan, rang them to complain, apparently Beryl grabbed the phone and told him "Our George can hug whoever he wants, why don't you piss off you horrible little man"
George played the rest of his tour to a sea of black faces and became a cultural icon over there, so much so that he considered retiring to SA because he felt so loved.

So, long before we were told by a bunch of millionaires that they "ain't gonna play Sun City!" an awkward geeky Wigan man with his ukulele and mucky songs was fighting the good fight.
I've heard other versions of the story where Beryl slapped Malan but suspect the phone story is the real one, unfortunately.

http://www.georgeformby.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/GandB1DM.jpg


http://www.musicals101.com/images/jolson.jpg

Fuckin unsung heroes, I'm not sure how common this knowledge is, but it's news to me and I just thought I'd share.

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

they dressed up as star wars stormtroopers this year by the way tongue

catch my punk radio show on sundays at 2pm GMT on www.rockindevilradio.com

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Lol, they're probably about as accurate as Hartlepool.
Where the fuck is Phoenix anyway?

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Guana wrote:

Lol, they're probably about as accurate as Hartlepool.
Where the fuck is Phoenix anyway?

erm china?

catch my punk radio show on sundays at 2pm GMT on www.rockindevilradio.com

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Sunderland i belive? Not sure they have flushing toilets nevermind wi fi.

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

You only got that because Mel narrowed it down for you

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

LOL

catch my punk radio show on sundays at 2pm GMT on www.rockindevilradio.com

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Well i'm not gonna lie he helped i mean he wasn't that far off you could spit it easy.

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Guana, history like that needs to be better taught.  Thanks for digging that up.  I wish this world would realize that it shouldn't be white vs black, it should be rich vs poor.  Sadly mainstream media and 'entertainment' have the sheeple so brainwashed and distracted, the rich will continue to consolidate their power and control over us.

WEST HAM til I Die!!