Re: punk rock and PC culture

chisox100 wrote:
gnat wrote:

That's the price you pay for the addiction to a non-essential substance.

Got to admit chisox, that made me cringe.
How do you even know he's addicted?
I smoked everyday for years and wasn't addicted in the least. I did it because I enjoyed it.

Are you saying habits shouldn't be accomodated if they aren't essential?
What about public breastfeeding? That's certainly not essential these days, and it does offend a sizeable population. (At least in the US)

What about essential habits that places go out of their way to limit or restrict?
Like eating, drinking, bathing, sleeping, procreating, etc?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, your use of non-essential is problematic.

I don't think breast feeding is a good comparison given the completely different nature of the two.

Isnt this the same argument conservatives use on everything in our country? For example: If we allow the gays to get married and thus create a fluid definition of marriage, next they'll be demanded polygamy or bestiality.

So now you're coming down on bestiality? You're determined to completely fuck up my Friday nights aren't you?
But you want a better comparison than breastfeeding? OK, here's one ... dancing.
You've already admitted that it's a violent activity and bystanders can get hurt, (and speaking as someone who detached a retina in a moshpit, I wholeheartedly agree with you), but I'm pretty sure that you've been championing the right to dance since this thread began, we've agreed that given its own area the risks are minimised, what we haven't said is "get the fuck out of the venue you've paid to get into and do it in the fucking street" you seeing my point yet?

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad

Re: punk rock and PC culture

Hold on hold the FUCK ON GUANA!! Are you discreetly drawing a comparision between an activity enjoyed by a large majority of the "punk" population that annoys people with over inflated senses of their own inportance and using it to emphasise another activity enjoyed by a large majority of the "punk" population that annoys people with over inflated senses of their own importance?!?!?!?!.
.
.
.
DUDE
.
YOU'RE
BLOWING
MY
FUCKING
MINNNNNNNNNNND:O

Re: punk rock and PC culture

It's basic "arguing against Chisox 101"
If he makes a point that sounds like it could be almost reasonable, take the argument back to the beginning, he'll miss it second time round wink

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad

Re: punk rock and PC culture

Dancing at the front of a show doesnt effect the person standing in the back. If a group of people are standing in the back smoking that eventually drifts over to the people in the front whether they like it or not.

I have a feeling we're not going to reach any sort of a consensus on this...

"I pop punk, not pills"

80 (edited by ℊnat 2016-05-09 19:14:56)

Re: punk rock and PC culture

No smoking or bestiality for Guana sad

chisox100 wrote:
gnat wrote:

That's the price you pay for the addiction to a non-essential substance.

Got to admit chisox, that made me cringe.
How do you even know he's addicted?
I smoked everyday for years and wasn't addicted in the least. I did it because I enjoyed it.

Are you saying habits shouldn't be accomodated if they aren't essential?
What about public breastfeeding? That's certainly not essential these days, and it does offend a sizeable population. (At least in the US)

What about essential habits that places go out of their way to limit or restrict?
Like eating, drinking, bathing, sleeping, procreating, etc?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, your use of non-essential is problematic.

I don't think breast feeding is a good comparison given the completely different nature of the two.

Isnt this the same argument conservatives use on everything in our country? For example: If we allow the gays to get married and thus create a fluid definition of marriage, next they'll be demanded polygamy or bestiality.


It's a non-essential habit, and when done publicly, offends many people. Just like smoking. So no, I think its a perfect analogy.

The bestiality comparisons to homosexuality when it comes to marriage don't even begin to make sense because it assumes animals have the ability to give consent. Its silly, and only makes sense in the minds of bigots who think homosexuality is deviant behavior...when in fact it occurs naturally in many other species, not just ours.

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

Re: punk rock and PC culture

and why lump polygamy in with bestiality? We've determined with homosexuality that two consenting adults have the right to do what they want, especially regarding an activity that affects and concerns just themselves, why not grant the same rights to three people who are happy in a relationship like that.
It's a far cry from fucking chickens.
Sexy ... sexy ...chickens.

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad

Re: punk rock and PC culture

http://www.bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/sexy_chicken.jpg

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

Re: punk rock and PC culture

Hmm, she's a bit fat for my tastes, have you got a picture from a better angle? Maybe wearing something with tassels?

chisox100 wrote:

Dancing at the front of a show doesnt effect the person standing in the back. If a group of people are standing in the back smoking that eventually drifts over to the people in the front whether they like it or not.

I have a feeling we're not going to reach any sort of a consensus on this...

We're talking about second hand smoke Chisox, not mustard gas

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad

Re: punk rock and PC culture

i love the smell of napalm in the morning

catch my punk radio show on sundays at 2pm GMT on www.rockindevilradio.com

Re: punk rock and PC culture

Also i'd say the analogy of breastfeeding to nicotine is spot on essentially it all boils down to whatever stops the little shits crying for two minutes...don't think for one second when you see a stressed and harried looking parent shoving a titty into there offsprings gob it's anything at all to do with nurturing and there special bond...they just want some quiet time, as did Mrs howling when i tried stopping smoking once and she got so sick of me flouncing around the house shouting at random things she eventually bought me some cigs was either that or give me the tit....dude pull your head out of the clouds you live in chicago for god sake a pollution mecha if ever there was one, passive smoking is bullshit propaganda at it's finest. above, below and all around you pollution is spewed into your lungs 24/7 365  do you honestly belive us smelly fingered fuckers are robbing you of any extra years of your life?
I find it highly amusing btw how someones horror of political correctness only extends to something they take part in??
Hypocrisy thy name is chisox.

Re: punk rock and PC culture

Howling is right, I grew up in salford in the 70's, the original dirty old town ffs, I remember family get together at various relatives houses, every fucker smoked, the gaff was thick with it, us kids used to walk round with scabs on our heads where we'd walked into an aunties cig, I shit you not, they'd wipe the ash off your fod and tell you "you'll be reet" before giving you 50p and sending you to the shop to get them 20 woodbine.
Smoking was massive, pubs and clubs were dense with smoke, we'd smoke on buses, walking round shops with a cig in your mouth and giving the girl on the till a light when she took your money. Non smoking households had ashtrays for when smokers visited, it was fuckin everywhere. I've got baby pictures where my gran is proudly holding her new grandson with a cig in her other hand.

Then, (because it was soo bad for you) no smoking signs spread from establishment to establishment, from doctors waiting rooms, to teachers lounges, to cafes and restaurants, the "please do not smoke" sign on the top floor of the bus was replaced with an angry red circle and the promise of a large fine.
Add to that the cost of smoking rocketing and eventually it's a completely different world, pubs were the last bastion of the smoker and they took them too.
In comparison, we live in a virtually smoke free world now.

So, health freaks, how you feeling? You must be right as fucking rain without us polluting your lungs? What's that? Cancer's still a major killer? Asthma 's through the fucking roof? It hasn't made a fucking difference? That's because we were used as a scapegoat, we live in a filthy world, you leave your smoke-free venues with a belly full of alcohol and all the health risks that go with it, onto a street full of exhaust fumes, grab a burger on your way home (if you're lucky they scraped the tumors off the meat before they processed it, get home and have a pint of water to prevent your hangover, enjoy the taste of the thousands of different medications that get pissed out daily into your cycled water supply, then go to sleep, safe in the knowledge that we'll be at least 8 steps away from the door having one last guilt laden smoke before bed.

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad

Re: punk rock and PC culture

I switched to vaping.  You guys should try it; it's *WAAAAAY* better.

You can't get those shitty pen-sized ones, though.  Those are garbage.  You have to get a good one.

Pros:

- You don't smell like a rotting asshole (for the first time in 15 years, I've been complemented for HOW I SMELL)
- Improved lung capacity and taste buds
- A flavor that's pleasant, even with functioning taste buds
- If no one sees you doing it, they won't even know that you did it
- Way less bad for you
- Better clouds for blowing smoke rings or what-have-you
- No minimum time commitment.  Take a puff here and there or go for a classic fiver; whatever tickles your fancy


Cons:

- Not controlling fire in a non-chalant way several times per day (easily remedied by smoking weed)

My internet is awful and I'm sharing it.  If you're waiting on me to seed something, be patient; I'll do my best.

"I will never bow down to another man even when everyone's saying I've sinned."  - Toh Kay

Re: punk rock and PC culture

I don't smoke and to be honest hate the smell of people smoking around me, but never had a problem with people smoking at gigs ect. I did had a problem with drunken assholes stumbling into me and burning me or my clothes with their cigs. I would gladly welcome back smoking in clubs again just to mask the smell of the neanderthals who have yet to discover deodorant.

And yes, I do consider smokers to be more sociable as someone else pointed out....If you consider a bunch of blokes standing outside smoking , whilst bitching about how they have to stand outside to smoke a sociable environment. All my mates smoke so I hear all the smoking arguments every gig I go to with them.

And just for the record...here in Australia, the smoking bans in clubs ect were not introduced for the welfare of the patrons . They were introduced for the apparent protection and welfare of the club employees... i.e to stop any future compensation claims from any person who worked in a club that may happen to get cancer.

MY BOOTLEG DVD TRADE SITE
http://kimo13.webs.com/

Re: punk rock and PC culture

kimo wrote:

And just for the record...here in Australia, the smoking bans in clubs ect were not introduced for the welfare of the patrons . They were introduced for the apparent protection and welfare of the club employees... i.e to stop any future compensation claims from any person who worked in a club that may happen to get cancer.


I don't work in mines.  One reason is that I don't want to inhale coal dust.  Another is that I don't want to have a mountain fall on me.  Another is that I don't want to explode in an accident.

I'm also not a soldier because I don't want to be shot.

See where I'm going with this?

My internet is awful and I'm sharing it.  If you're waiting on me to seed something, be patient; I'll do my best.

"I will never bow down to another man even when everyone's saying I've sinned."  - Toh Kay

Re: punk rock and PC culture

I think its amazing the rural/urban divide on this. Here now I live in a fairly large, liberal city where smoking itself has become taboo and smoking indoors ... o___o forget about it. I've actually gotten the "what the fuck is wrong with you" face just smoking beside my car in the parking lot. If a family walks by the women clutch their purse and hurry their children along. I smoke very irregularly and it still gets on my nerves.

But when I go back home its like 75 years ago. Everyone and their grandma smokes. When my grandpa was in the hospital there was a nice smoking area right outside and the nurses kept the emergency exit door propped open so they wouldn't have to walk around to the main entrance every time. Little kids run in the store to get their mom or dad their carton of cigs and the cashiers dont think a thing about it. People dont automatically think less of you for doing it.

Some of my absolute favorite memories are playing pool in my uncles shed. 20 degrees outside, fire going inside, music blaring, with a thick fog of smoke all through the room. The combination of wood burning, the musty furniture, the smoke, etc. i loved it.

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

Re: punk rock and PC culture

Howling wrote:

Also i'd say the analogy of breastfeeding to nicotine is spot on essentially it all boils down to whatever stops the little shits crying for two minutes...don't think for one second when you see a stressed and harried looking parent shoving a titty into there offsprings gob it's anything at all to do with nurturing and there special bond...they just want some quiet time, as did Mrs howling when i tried stopping smoking once and she got so sick of me flouncing around the house shouting at random things she eventually bought me some cigs was either that or give me the tit.....

Breast feeding is a natural behavior that occurs in every mammal. Smoking is a relatively recent human invention. I still dont see how its a fair comparison...

dude pull your head out of the clouds you live in chicago for god sake a pollution mecha if ever there was one, passive smoking is bullshit propaganda at it's finest. above, below and all around you pollution is spewed into your lungs 24/7 365  do you honestly belive us smelly fingered fuckers are robbing you of any extra years of your life?
I find it highly amusing btw how someones horror of political correctness only extends to something they take part in??
Hypocrisy thy name is chisox

Our air is actually pretty clean. Just checked the data on some air quality non-profit website and we're ranked 42nd worst in the US. Leagues ahead of LA, St Louis and even our neighbors in Milwaukee. There also isnt a single US city in the top 20 worst in the world. One thing I noticed while I was in Europe last summer is that the pollution you can smell while walking down the street is much stronger than anything i've experienced in the US. So our air quality isnt a huge issue.

I don't see how me thinking that smoking should only be done outdoors makes me a hypocrite. Im not saying ban smoking or raise taxes even higher on it. There's a time and place for everything and the addictions of some shouldnt effect the lives of others.

"I pop punk, not pills"

Re: punk rock and PC culture

I don't see how me thinking that smoking should only be done outdoors makes me a hypocrite. Im not saying ban smoking or raise taxes even higher on it. There's a time and place for everything and the addictions of some shouldnt effect the lives of others.

A little thing called freedom i belive i've heard it thrown around a time or two.
Now you can quite rightly argue that you should have the freedom to breathe 42nd rated clean air without giving smokers the freedom to do something inside which untill only a few years ago was perfectly legal to do the world over...but i would argue that studies show alchohol kills and directly injures more people and innocent bystanders every single day of the year than smoking ever has or will, it's a far bigger drain on the health system and causes A&E'S the world over to become overun and overstretched every single weekend. And of course the added effect of the mass outpouring of drunken smokers out on to our citys streets looking for a dry place to light up in turn produces more drunken accidents and also more drunken assaults thus leading to allready overstretched policing units becoming further stretched and furthermore an overcrowded prison/court system being pushed ever further, so logically alchohol should be outlawed entirely to protect those who would like to go and sit in a bar over soft drinks and politely chat with there friends, you could infact say it should rank much higher than smoking in terms of danger to another humans health, being the victim of numerous drunken assaults i can attest to this(i should of course mention it is actually illegal to serve a drunk person in a pub)
Then of course there is the highly biased media coverage aimed towards demonising smokers in the eyes of the vast majority a coverage which could be argued has swayed your judgement and manipulated you whether knowingly or unknowingly by "educating" you with henpecked diatribe built towards further shaming anyone with a habit which is still entirely legal and brings in extorniate amounts of tax each year which if was gone tommorow would leave a huge gaping hole.
Now you made the argument of your air being pretty clean? But by whos standard is that?
I don't own a car nor have i ever, so in 31 years upon this earth barring occasionally "borrowing" a car as a young man never have i personally added to the ever growing problem of global warming through petrol nor will i god willing as i love being able to walk everywhere i need to go locally, now my eldests school is two miles up a hill of four lanes of traffic, every morning weather permitting i walk him to school upon my shoulders past gridlocked traffic idling spewing out all the crap cars spill out, should therefore cars be restricted to only long distance journeys lets say any journey longer than 3 miles that can't easily be accesed on foot to protect pedestrians from breathing in any more noxious gases than nessecary that would presumably cut car use and therefore car pollution by more than half overnight in one fell swoop?
Now it's fair to say that is on the face of it a flippant and argument inducing theory and purposely so, but can you in anyway shape or form tell me it isn't fair?
I can and no it's not fair because it takes away freedom of choice freedom to do something entirely legal which whilst yes may be in one way or the other harmful to another human being should not be the deciding factor, so many things we do as humans on a daily basis are harmfull to one another whether mentally, physically, emotionally or otherwise but they are accepted as the norm untill you are told to think otherwise by sensationalist media outlets and goverment funded political correctness campaigns. That chisox is where your hypocrisy lies feeling you or anyone elses has the right to decide anothers actions when so many things we do upon a daily basis are harmfull to one another but blatantly accepted as the norm is ridiculous.
And don't get me started on the emotional impact of overnight completely alienating and dehumanising of millions of addicts around the world of a drug that was untill very recently historically speaking a rich and varied part of all culture especially the punk one you so vehemently declare yourself a proud member of.

Re: punk rock and PC culture

chisox100 wrote:

There's a time and place for everything and the addictions of some shouldnt effect the lives of others.

So no tax money for anyone addicted to anything then? No rehab services, no medicaid, no food stamps so the addicts kids can eat? Definitely no needle exchanges or homeless shelters or food banks either bc they are all propped up by your tax money too.

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

Re: punk rock and PC culture

i say kill all da punx

catch my punk radio show on sundays at 2pm GMT on www.rockindevilradio.com

Re: punk rock and PC culture

Y'know, I was going to post a really good, powerful quote that would have shown Chisox' argument up for what it was.
But I'm just gonna go for Old Faithful instead

roll

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad

Re: punk rock and PC culture

It kind of reminded me of the caste system Brave New World a little. The "addictions of some shouldnt effect the lives of others." thing. Working class punk rock smokers would definitely be Epsilons.

Epsilons- Epsilons wear the color black. Epsilons are the lowest caste and can not read or write. Epsilons are deprieved 80% of their oxygen and have the most alcohol in their blood surrogates. Epsilons have to do the worst jobs that no one else wants to do.

Sound about right, Guana?

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

Re: punk rock and PC culture

Sounds spot on, and it took Chisox to point out how worthless to society we are before we got it.
That's sad
The quote I was thinking of was "First they came for the Socialists..."
While smoking seems a big thing, it's still only the thin end of the wedge, I can't wait for Chisox next sulky thread when they hit something that doesn't suit him.

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad

Re: punk rock and PC culture

I think kimo said the laws were made for the employees of the venues, and he  is right. Some bartender works in a smokehole bar for 20 years and gets lung cancer, you bet he/she is gonna come suing somebody.

NOFX had a song about this, called Can't Get The Stink Out

What I scream about
Can't get the stink out
Catch it on my tongue
Save it in my lung
Fucking Vegans smoking
Keeping us all choking

Big round of applause
For California laws
Act like human beings
Instead of Europeans
I was a singer/dancer
Now I have lung cancer

"We've been divided, we've been bled,
Like a chicken without a head.
Running frantically amuck
Taking but not giving a fuck."

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z18/ickmcwang/ickmcwang.gif

Re: punk rock and PC culture

should probably do away with the alcohol and loud music, too. Wouldn't want anyone developing a drinking problem or hearing loss.

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

100

Re: punk rock and PC culture

NOFX can go sit near a fuckin window too. hmm

I remember reading years ago that you couldn't advertise for bar staff and stipulate "smokers only" but you can discriminate against smokers in an ad, that's fucked.
I still say there's a strong enough case for separate smoking and non-smoking venues, we all still get freedom of choice and the competition it created would result in better entertainment and more realistic alcohol prices, now they've got us all in the same corner they can fuck us over all at once.

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad