Topic: Republicans and Punk

So a friend of mine is a total establishment republican (she adores Marco Rubio in particular). She was saying to me recently that she finds it very annoying how liberal the punk scene is and that conservatives need to be better represented.

So this got me thinking...
I believe that you physically cant be a punk and a republican. The ideologies just dont mesh. You cant be anti-gay, anti-weed and anti-choice and claim to be punk. Can you be conservative and punk? Sure, because being fiscally conservative doesnt automatically make you a war mongering bigot, which republicans are in addition to their conservative fiscal beliefs. In some thread a while ago someone on here said something along the lines of "i dont know what punk is but i definitely know what it isnt" so that made me come to this conclusion: punk doesnt require you to be liberal, conservative, libertarian or a centrist but you sure as hell arent punk if you support the republican party.

Thoughts? I needed a little venting after the sheer stupidity that was this conversation with my friend.

"I pop punk, not pills"

Re: Republicans and Punk

Punk, for my experience, is usually identified (for political leaning anyway) through anarchic and nihilistic values, with all sorts of sub-set (vegans, animal rights, specific anti-political activism, etc.) values intertwined, ranging from vague to extremist viewpoints. It bothers me most that your friend feels that a political body needs better representation within a social network that was seemingly founded to speak out against authoritarian figure heads and establishment. Connecting the dots from liberal punk values to liberal democratic values its a pretty vague definition to further apply where are the conservative republican punks at?

Tell her to try country music, there's plenty of conservative value for the dollar there.

From the wreckage of humiliation
I got my self respect
I pulled myself together
What the hell did you expect

Re: Republicans and Punk

There are many who would probably disagree with "you can't be anti-weed", namely every straight edge person or band. As most know I am not straight edge, but I understand their philosophy.

I am not a parent either, but I sympathize with those who are. I'd imagine its a scary thing having a child, raising it for 12 or 13 years, then all of a sudden having to deal with the fact that your baby is about to have to deal with all the shit you had to deal with. Sure, they might only ever smoke pot and they might handle it well, but what if it goes the other way (like it did with me) and drugs end up consuming their whole lives? I don't blame anyone for having those fears and deciding to be anti everything, including weed. I disagree with their conclusion, but I totally get it.

I would also disagree with you on the "anti-choice" comment. There's a long conversation somewhere outlining why. P.S... Saying anti-choice is a bitch move. I don't go around accusing people of being "anti-life". It's a very complex issue. There are many young, intelligent people out there who are both pro life and non religious. There's a pretty large and diverse coalition, and the numbers are growing not shrinking. I see where abortion rights advocates are coming from, I used to be one, I just think many of them have not thought about the issue deeply enough. They think they are defending womens rights, which is fine, but I think its bigger than that.

As for being "anti-gay", again, what kind of anti-gay? The kind that wants to hunt us down and exterminate us, the ones that want to take our rights away, or the ones who simply have a misguided philosophy but do not want to infringe on our rights in any way? The first two...yeah, fuck them. The last set, that's their right. Be homophobic all you want in your church or in your mind. As long as you don't go any further, you're fine by me.

Basically chisox, all this shit has nothing to do with punk. The political themes of punk music seem to focus on universal constants like greed, corruption, power, poverty, the environment, war, etc. Not these smaller checklist items that do nothing but divide our ranks.

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

Re: Republicans and Punk

One of the key tenets of the Republican party is the desire for less government control and intrusion in all facets of life (unless you are gay, apparently) . Libertarians typically identify as Republican for this reason. You won't find many punks saying they are Republican, but I know for a fact some do identify as a Libertarian.

Trey Parker and Matt Stone, the South park guys, are libertarian. So is the guy who founded PayPal. And one of the co-founders of Wikipedia.

"We've been divided, we've been bled,
Like a chicken without a head.
Running frantically amuck
Taking but not giving a fuck."

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z18/ickmcwang/ickmcwang.gif

Re: Republicans and Punk

Have you even listened to any of the first and second wave bands? There's a shit ton of right-wing punk bands. I thought punk was thinking for yourself, not conforming to the political hive-mind.

If you think republicans can't be punk, you're looking at people one-dimensionally, man.

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"Is that a picture of your cock on the wall?" - Gnat

And your face:
on every leaf
of every branch
of every tree.

Re: Republicans and Punk

oblivionbunny wrote:

Tell her to try country music, there's plenty of conservative value for the dollar there.

HAH! From my own experience, the "punk" kids I knew didn't give a shit about politics and that's all I got. For some reason, this reminded me of my very gay and VERY Republican friend and, honestly, I couldn't get my head around it. Republicans are pretty much anti-gay in everything yet my friend was planning on marrying his then fiance. His party is vehemently against gay marriage. Actually, he was the first gay Republican I've ever met and I have a legion of gays.

Sorry, I really didn't have an opinion on it. I just wanted to be included big_smile

"Hey evil, why don't you eat my butt?"

Re: Republicans and Punk

I have a legion of gays

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/adenyastro685/Confused-Baby-Meme-Blank-08_zpswptvfsw6.jpg

"If there's one thing i've learned, It's that life's just one series of curshing defeats after another until you just wished flanders was dead" -Homer simpson

Re: Republicans and Punk

Hahaha, "Punk can be anything you want it to be!"
We've set the bar so low over the past few years that yeah, you can be a Republican and a punk, or a capitalist and a punk, or a Tory, a Nazi, the fuckin KKK, why not? the basic ideology behind punk doesn't need it as a platform any more, that ideology exists quite widely outside of punk and gets ignored by the majority of "punks" nowadays, it no longer sets us aside, it is in the hands, hearts and minds of people who will use that ideology in a much better way than we did, namely by not bouncing up and down and screaming it in the faces of the people you are deliberately trying to isolate.
We're just a music/fashion genre now and should get the fuck off our high horses.

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad

Re: Republicans and Punk

Guana wrote:

We're just a music/fashion genre now and should get the fuck off our high horses.

I love you.

Hahahah

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"Is that a picture of your cock on the wall?" - Gnat

And your face:
on every leaf
of every branch
of every tree.

10 (edited by u.s.c.b. 2016-07-15 00:16:40)

Re: Republicans and Punk

Guana wrote:

Hahaha, "Punk can be anything you want it to be!"
We've set the bar so low over the past few years that yeah, you can be a Republican and a punk, or a capitalist and a punk, or a Tory, a Nazi, the fuckin KKK, why not? the basic ideology behind punk doesn't need it as a platform any more, that ideology exists quite widely outside of punk and gets ignored by the majority of "punks" nowadays, it no longer sets us aside, it is in the hands, hearts and minds of people who will use that ideology in a much better way than we did, namely by not bouncing up and down and screaming it in the faces of the people you are deliberately trying to isolate.
We're just a music/fashion genre now and should get the fuck off our high horses.


You should copy this and save it so you can just paste it for the next "are punks allowed to wear fitted hats" thread. I'm not trying to make lite of the sox's post here, but it seems so many of these questions get asked about what people who listen to punk are suppose to do and not allowed to do leaving it so straight and narrow it would make a gouted toe cringe! It's really irony at it's greatest, A genre based on free thinking supported by aggravation having a code enforced by society. Really to be honest i don't think it's possible at all to be in any band without being some what liberal seeing as your main goal is express opinion based on individually either yours or someone elses no matter how biased it seems  to other people, So if who ever pissed you off by making these one minded comments listens to any music what so ever she's to a certain degree a hypocrite (it's so much easier for metal heads because if the beastie boys come on the radio all you have to say is "fuckin right dude")

"If there's one thing i've learned, It's that life's just one series of curshing defeats after another until you just wished flanders was dead" -Homer simpson

Re: Republicans and Punk

u.s.c.b. wrote:

I have a legion of gays

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/adenyastro685/Confused-Baby-Meme-Blank-08_zpswptvfsw6.jpg

I know a lot of gays neutral

"Hey evil, why don't you eat my butt?"

Re: Republicans and Punk

gnat wrote:

Basically chisox, all this shit has nothing to do with punk. The political themes of punk music seem to focus on universal constants like greed, corruption, power, poverty, the environment, war, etc. Not these smaller checklist items that do nothing but divide our ranks.

Couldn't you argue that marijuana prohibition exists as a result of greed and corruption?

"I pop punk, not pills"

Re: Republicans and Punk

chisox100 wrote:
gnat wrote:

Basically chisox, all this shit has nothing to do with punk. The political themes of punk music seem to focus on universal constants like greed, corruption, power, poverty, the environment, war, etc. Not these smaller checklist items that do nothing but divide our ranks.

Couldn't you argue that marijuana prohibition exists as a result of greed and corruption?

Ignorance mostly. Like I said before, I have heard reasonable arguments against legalization. As more and more states begin to experiment with it, public support will continue to grow.

Whether its through propping up the prison complex or through taxes, the government will get theirs. So basically, no, I don't think marijuana prohibition or marijuana legalization will have any great impact on the amount of greed/corruption, just the shape of it.

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

14 (edited by OiTheAria 2016-07-22 01:20:01)

Re: Republicans and Punk

A little new here, hows it going all?

I think a big problem in the (liberal) punk scene (and the world in general) is the inability to separate an individual from an entire ideology. People have their reasons, whether you find them valid or not, to believe what they do. Have you asked her why she supports the Republican party? Try doing that, and taking the time to listen, not judge, and then ask her why she likes punk. If she's willing to have the conversation, try to find a correlation between the two. She may have perfectly fucking valid reasons to like both, the most important being "I like what I fucking like".

Gnat already made a point with anti-weed, anti-choice, and anti-gay, but I'm going to add to the last one and tell you that A LOT of punks, particularly in the 80s American hardcore scene, were pretty homophobic. I know saying "it was a different time" sounds like a cop-out, but its the same reason skinheads in the 60s were largely racist/xenophobic, even if they did listen to black music. Sure, neither became part of a systematic oppression of gays and minorities, but that prejudice was still there. I'm sure 40 years from now people will be analyzing us and saying we were "patriarchal cis scum" or whatever the fuck people say so there's that.

Also keep in mind that a lot of punk comes from the working class, and although everyone who hasn't been in that situation likes to praise the working class as some kind of ghetto utopia where all share a socially just mindset, fact of the matter is people of that economic status can be pretty fucking racist, homophobic, etc, and, in the US at least, generally very religious. A lot of working class punks get rid of the latter, but the former, especially homophobia, stick around.

Also, like guana said, stop trying to think of punk as some kind of big movement that is still happening. That ship sailed a long, long time ago.

Thanks: gnat1

Re: Republicans and Punk

Oi!

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/AddictedtoOi_ep/addicted.gif

"Is that a picture of your cock on the wall?" - Gnat

And your face:
on every leaf
of every branch
of every tree.

Re: Republicans and Punk

OiTheAria wrote:

A little new here, hows it going all?

I think a big problem in the (liberal) punk scene (and the world in general) is the inability to separate an individual from an entire ideology. People have their reasons, whether you find them valid or not, to believe what they do. Have you asked her why she supports the Republican party? Try doing that, and taking the time to listen, not judge, and then ask her why she likes punk. If she's willing to have the conversation, try to find a correlation between the two. She may have perfectly fucking valid reasons to like both, the most important being "I like what I fucking like".

Gnat already made a point with anti-weed, anti-choice, and anti-gay, but I'm going to add to the last one and tell you that A LOT of punks, particularly in the 80s American hardcore scene, were pretty homophobic. I know saying "it was a different time" sounds like a cop-out, but its the same reason skinheads in the 60s were largely racist/xenophobic, even if they did listen to black music. Sure, neither became part of a systematic oppression of gays and minorities, but that prejudice was still there. I'm sure 40 years from now people will be analyzing us and saying we were "patriarchal cis scum" or whatever the fuck people say so there's that.

Also keep in mind that a lot of punk comes from the working class, and although everyone who hasn't been in that situation likes to praise the working class as some kind of ghetto utopia where all share a socially just mindset, fact of the matter is people of that economic status can be pretty fucking racist, homophobic, etc, and, in the US at least, generally very religious. A lot of working class punks get rid of the latter, but the former, especially homophobia, stick around.

Also, like guana said, stop trying to think of punk as some kind of big movement that is still happening. That ship sailed a long, long time ago.

Well said man well said

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Re: Republicans and Punk

Guana wrote:

We're just a music/fashion genre now and should get the fuck off our high horses.

Nazi Punks can still fuck off though.

"I tried to push him away with my head and I shouldn't have done that." - Alan Pardew

Re: Republicans and Punk

Firebombing the republican HQ in NC was pretty punk rock.

carry the big gats and leave the scene real fuckin nasty like chocolate milk after a big mac

Re: Republicans and Punk

I know a few punks who are right leaning, but I doubt any of them would call themselves Republican.

Coincidentally, I went on to facebook bored as fuck last night and looked at the candidates for president's individual pages to see which of my friends liked the pages. Breakdown as follows:

Clinton: 8 friends
Stein: 9 friends
Sanders: 31 friends
Johnson: 14 friends
Trump: 2 friends (1 is surely a joke, 1 is a like step-cousin of mine I've only met once and have no idea about)

Re: Republicans and Punk

rudy.peux wrote:

I know a few punks who are right leaning, but I doubt any of them would call themselves Republican.

Coincidentally, I went on to facebook bored as fuck last night and looked at the candidates for president's individual pages to see which of my friends liked the pages. Breakdown as follows:

Clinton: 8 friends
Stein: 9 friends
Sanders: 31 friends
Johnson: 14 friends
Trump: 2 friends (1 is surely a joke, 1 is a like step-cousin of mine I've only met once and have no idea about)

Feel the Bern

I voted today, at the early voting place. Lo and behold, they are apparently open 7 am to 7 pm every day until election, incuding weekend. I can vote on a Sunday? Who knew...

"We've been divided, we've been bled,
Like a chicken without a head.
Running frantically amuck
Taking but not giving a fuck."

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z18/ickmcwang/ickmcwang.gif

Re: Republicans and Punk

I second that "Feel the Bern"  Remember to vote early to be sure.  I'm a redskin and a proud member of the New Democrat Party of Canada.  I thought alot of punk was about politics.  About anti greed which is the ethos of capitalism.  I thought punks wanted to change the world for the better which is what socialism would do.  I grew up with bands like DOA that taught me Talk-Action=0.  There are people struggling with minimum wage jobs and see things getting worse and worse.  We need a fair and just society that everyone that wants to work hard will get ahead.  Lefties are fiscally responsible as much as the other guys.  That is not what a conservative is about.  They believe in the free market and exploitation of workers.  Things are going to get worse if we don't pick up our guitars, picket signs or volunteer and donate.  Like my friend who finished her doctorate in sociology said to me "I thought punk was about reading".  The basics are painfully easy you just need to look them up.  Punk is for thinking for yourself so I can't tell you which way to lean.  Remember to vote!  The future is up to us.

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Re: Republicans and Punk

BeerNecessities wrote:

I second that "Feel the Bern"  Remember to vote early to be sure.  I'm a redskin and a proud member of the New Democrat Party of Canada.  I thought alot of punk was about politics.  About anti greed which is the ethos of capitalism.  I thought punks wanted to change the world for the better which is what socialism would do.  I grew up with bands like DOA that taught me Talk-Action=0.  There are people struggling with minimum wage jobs and see things getting worse and worse.  We need a fair and just society that everyone that wants to work hard will get ahead.  Lefties are fiscally responsible as much as the other guys.  That is not what a conservative is about.  They believe in the free market and exploitation of workers.  Things are going to get worse if we don't pick up our guitars, picket signs or volunteer and donate.  Like my friend who finished her doctorate in sociology said to me "I thought punk was about reading".  The basics are painfully easy you just need to look them up.  Punk is for thinking for yourself so I can't tell you which way to lean.  Remember to vote!  The future is up to us.

The lack of worker representation and the culling of unions in this country is just step one on the conservative plan to return America to the 30's. You know, when the rich were even richer, and workers worked 7 days a week, 14 hours a day for scrip that wasnt even money, just a permission slip from the farm owner to "buy" food at an overpriced store, because a regular store only takes money, not scrip.

Read Grapes of Wrath. And that is where this country is heading, again, if we dont get our heads out of our asses.

"We've been divided, we've been bled,
Like a chicken without a head.
Running frantically amuck
Taking but not giving a fuck."

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z18/ickmcwang/ickmcwang.gif

Re: Republicans and Punk

Even IF i agreed with Trump on every other issue, I could never vote for a climate science denier.

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

Re: Republicans and Punk

gnat wrote:

Even IF i agreed with Trump on every other issue, I could never vote for a climate science denier.

That is the line in the sand for you? Climate change? Just kinda surprised

"We've been divided, we've been bled,
Like a chicken without a head.
Running frantically amuck
Taking but not giving a fuck."

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z18/ickmcwang/ickmcwang.gif

Re: Republicans and Punk

The survival of our species is pretty important don't you think? Its all fun and games until millions of people have to move further inland and you start having territorial disputes and natural resource shortages.

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana