Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Ick McWang wrote:

Some of that may depend on where you are from. I am from Tampa, and the Seminole are doing just fine, thank you. Matter of fact they are just now undergoing a huge expansion of their casino grounds. What happens in the west/midwest is not what happens in the southeast. Correct me if I am wrong

Hell I agree with much of what you have posted, but dont quote that Washington Post bought and paid for 90% vote, cmon man. Thats the only reason I responded

My experience is, indeed, with midwest/west tribes, so I'll concede those points to you, as I haven't the foggiest clue as to what what's going on in Florida.  However, I will happily turn around and grab those examples as evidence for my main thesis here:  The reality of life is way too complicated to just categorize everyone's life experience based on the color of their skin, gender, etc.

In my home state of Indiana, for instance, the Shawnee are struggling to have the state government even recognize that they ever lived here.  The anthropology and archaeology departments at Indiana University have what they call "irrefutable evidence of pre- and post-Columbian Shawnee habitation of Indiana," if the Shawnees' word isn't good enough, but the political ramifications of granting the Shawnee proper recognition includes lost tax revenue and additional expenditures, not to mention tensions with the Potawatomi who currently have some sort of strange monopoly on being "native."

Different people have different problems.  Everyone's experience varies.  I'm willing to listen to the problems other people have, but I don't see any reason that my experiences and opinions have to be marginalized in order for that to happen.

My internet is awful and I'm sharing it.  If you're waiting on me to seed something, be patient; I'll do my best.

"I will never bow down to another man even when everyone's saying I've sinned."  - Toh Kay

52 (edited by paulmccu 2016-07-03 06:13:38)

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

Insert the n-word every time you see blackface on this thread and you’ll hear what I hear—and if you don’t understand why you shoudn’t say the n-word, I’d suggest, again, that you do some work and figure it out. Try it, just read all of the justifications, anger, and dismissals as if it said the n-word. I know that some might think they are not the same, but can you hold to that argument in a world of abstractions where signigfiers are stripped of history?

if blackface is an empty signifier, than try this: go to a show in blackface and insist that you have the right to do it. Now go to a different show and yell the n-word and insist that the scene is inclusive and you don’t mean disrespect. Finally, go to a show in black face and yell the n-word. If you come back and believe a fucking word of what’s been said, then fine. Just keep doing it.

I think you'll find that the world does not exist in abstractions.

As for the other points: I’m not asking anyone to fetishize one individual voice of color and use it as evidence and quite frankly I don’t know where people got that idea. You can find people of color saying it's okay to use racial slurs of all sorts, you could find slaves who truly loved their masters, and so on down on the list so that's not my point...

I’m saying that if we –and I include myself— listen we might hear something.

Alright, I’m done with this thread. At least one person has made it clear that he or she does not care so, whatever, don’t care.

53 (edited by ℊnat 2016-07-03 11:14:27)

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

I wish for once you would just stop fucking around and actually respond to my points. You see, when you are having a debate about X, you don't get to say "Replace X with Y", then continue on as if nothing happened. And that's what you just attempted to do three pages into this thread.

Then for good measure you throw out a couple more straw men.
"Go to a show in blackface and insist you have the right to do it"
"Now go to a different show and yell the n-word"
"Finally go to a show in blackface and yell the n-word"

Again, what the hell does "the n-word" have to do with anything? Furthermore, why should we go to a show and attempt to do an intellectually fraudulant social experiment when you won't even bother answering simple questions over the internet?

So if all you're going to do is talk about the "n-word" and 'slaves loving their masters', then I don't blame you for being done with this thread. In fact, I think you should be done with anything at all that requires the smallest amount of logic or rationality.

"Flowers are cunts basically." - Guana

54 (edited by Bettie_Rage 2016-07-03 18:41:53)

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

paulmccu wrote:

Insert the n-word every time you see blackface on this thread and you’ll hear what I hear—and if you don’t understand why you shoudn’t say the n-word, I’d suggest, again, that you do some work and figure it out. Try it, just read all of the justifications, anger, and dismissals as if it said the n-word. I know that some might think they are not the same, but can you hold to that argument in a world of abstractions where signigfiers are stripped of history?

if blackface is an empty signifier, than try this: go to a show in blackface and insist that you have the right to do it. Now go to a different show and yell the n-word and insist that the scene is inclusive and you don’t mean disrespect. Finally, go to a show in black face and yell the n-word. If you come back and believe a fucking word of what’s been said, then fine. Just keep doing it.

I think you'll find that the world does not exist in abstractions.

As for the other points: I’m not asking anyone to fetishize one individual voice of color and use it as evidence and quite frankly I don’t know where people got that idea. You can find people of color saying it's okay to use racial slurs of all sorts, you could find slaves who truly loved their masters, and so on down on the list so that's not my point...

I’m saying that if we –and I include myself— listen we might hear something.


Alright, I’m done with this thread. At least one person has made it clear that he or she does not care so, whatever, don’t care.

Kay..

"Hey evil, why don't you eat my butt?"
Thanks: gnat1

Re: I'd like to get your take on this POS..."Blacking Up"

paulmccu wrote:

I’m saying that if we –and I include myself— listen we might hear something.

I've listened to all your posts and heard fuck all up to now, seriously, just a bunch of buzz-words and academic rhetoric angrily wrapped around a core with no substance. You flounced in here, incandescent with rage at our ignorance, condensed the whole thread and all the varying thoughts and opinions in it into one dismissable concept and (without saying which particular statements or opinions have got you so worked up) throw a fucking big blanket over everything and tell us how wrong we are.
Ever the good little college boy, you back your complete non-argument up with irrelevant links and quite possibly the worst analogy I've ever read, in any argument on any website, in the history of the internets, ever!
Seriously? you think that an example like that can make us understand where you're coming from?
OK, here's one for you, read through your last post, insert the word's "animal rights" every time you say "the n word". Next, go to your local butchers (or a "show" if that's all you can relate to) and scream "Meat is murder!"
Next, do the same thing, only this time, stick your thumb up your arse when you shout it, finally, do both these things with, I don't know, a bit of bacon sticking out of your top pocket, and see if there is a difference.
Do you understand what I'm saying? of course you don't, I'm talking total shite, but at least I admit it.

You explained that your initial anger at us was because we were a bunch of "white boys" having a closed discussion without wondering what black people had to say in the matter, despite the fact that we are all different colours, creeds and nationalities, and despite the fact that I personally posted on the historical impact of the "blackface" on the first page, your anger at us is based on the most tenuous of reasons.

No-one is marking your posts fella, I can see you're trying to tick all the right academic boxes but you only have to read a few threads on this site and you'll see how we talk to each other, like regular people having a conversation, we're not stupid by any means but the "baffle them with bullshit" card was played here a long time ago, and it was played better than you're doing it now, you want to get your point across, speak proper innit.

Incidentally, I read through the paper you linked in your first post, it was more "on-topic" than relevant, but one thing struck me, for a large part of the piece you could have switched the subject's of the paper to Northern women in the UK from the 60's to present day (ask Howling if you don't believe me), have you thought about that? I highly doubt it, champions against opression generally pick and choose which oppression they want to fight then call everybody else cunts for not being on board, it's all so boringly predictable.

Now you've apparently left this thread which is entirely up to you, feel free to carry on with the debate but I don't think it will do any good, your problem doesn't seem to lie with what we're saying, but with the existence and subject matter of this thread, if that's the case you're never going to be happy so I suggest you avoid similar threads in the future, we've got plenty of other threads if you want to contribute, all viewpoints are welcome as long as they belong to our members and we don't have to dig round the internet to find the opinion of someone who's never even heard of this fucking site and take it as a valid argument, I know that's perfectly acceptable in the academic world you usually inhabit, but here, it just looks like a cop out.

jello biafra ..... jello biafra ......... JELLO BIAFRA !!!!
Fuckin sex pistols mad
Thanks: gnat, ANTISOCIAL2